From CIA Secrets to Bestsellers: Barry Eisler on Writing What’s Real

Overview

This episode dives into Barry Eisler's journey from CIA operative to bestselling novelist, exploring how his real-world experiences shape his fiction. The conversation spans the art of storytelling, the complexities of power in America, and the importance of controlling narratives in both politics and business. Eisler also shares insights into his latest book, The System, and discusses broader societal issues like military spending, universal basic income, and the challenges of effective communication.

Notable Quotes

- The ship of state in America is a vast, complicated machine. How much can any one person really have a solid grip on all the levers of control? Not as much as any of us might like. – Barry Eisler, on the limits of leadership in large systems.

- All learning is the process of attaching the new and unfamiliar to the existing and familiar. That’s why Democrats should have called it ‘Medicare for All’ from the start. – Barry Eisler, on the power of framing in communication.

- If you want to know the secret to American foreign policy, it comes down to one word: domination. – Barry Eisler, on the underlying motives of U.S. global strategy.

📚 The Art of Writing Realistic Fiction

- Eisler emphasizes the importance of grounding fiction in reality, using personal experience, research, and expert consultation to create authentic characters and settings.

- He shares his three-tiered approach to research: personal experience, internet and book research, and consulting experts.

- Eisler highlights the value of showing drafts to real-life counterparts for accuracy, citing Margaret Atwood’s humorous example of learning how to roll a joint correctly for her book.

🛠️ Power, Politics, and the System

- The System, Eisler’s latest novel, examines how power reshapes ideals and priorities, focusing on a Latina congresswoman navigating the American political machine.

- He critiques the superficial framing of politics, arguing that real power lies with entities like the military-industrial complex, Wall Street, and Silicon Valley, rather than elected officials.

- Eisler discusses the ethical dilemmas of intelligence agencies, where deception is both a tool and a potential liability, complicating leadership and accountability.

🎯 The Importance of Controlling Narratives

- Eisler critiques Democrats for failing to control narratives, often reacting defensively rather than proactively shaping public discourse.

- He explains the concept of false binaries in political debates, urging leaders to reject limiting frameworks imposed by opponents.

- Using examples like Medicare for All, Eisler illustrates how effective branding can simplify complex ideas and resonate with the public.

💡 Universal Basic Income and Economic Hope

- Eisler advocates for universal basic income (UBI) as a solution to economic instability, especially in the face of AI and automation.

- He argues that UBI would foster innovation by providing a safety net, enabling more people to take entrepreneurial risks.

- Drawing on empirical evidence, he highlights how redistributing income to ordinary people stimulates the economy and reduces fear-driven decision-making.

🌍 U.S. Foreign Policy and the Pursuit of Domination

- Eisler critiques the U.S. obsession with domination, arguing that terms like stability and peace often mask imperialistic motives.

- He connects this mindset to broader societal issues, including excessive military spending and the prioritization of global control over domestic welfare.

- The conversation touches on the role of oligarchs in shaping policy, with Eisler suggesting that figures like Jeff Bezos could improve public perception through more equitable practices.