#1032 - Joshua Citarella - The Dark Subcultures of Online Politics

Overview

This episode dives into the intersection of internet subcultures and politics, exploring how online communities shape political ideologies, influence real-world policies, and foster radicalization. Joshua Citarella shares insights into the evolution of political trends, the role of memes, and the challenges of engaging young people in meaningful political discourse.

Notable Quotes

- If you're 15, the acceptable parameters of political debate are not just Democrats and Republicans. It extended to Trump and Sanders, and then it extended to primitivism and transhumanism. – Joshua Citarella, on the expansive Overton window for Gen Z.

- The mainstream media has tried to opportunistically use the analogy of a funnel to lump in a whole variety of stuff that should not be there. – Joshua Citarella, critiquing the oversimplification of radicalization narratives.

- The left that I see as scalable is more similar to what existed in the 1970s—robust trade union organizations and material concerns. – Joshua Citarella, on rebuilding the left's coalition.

🧠 The Evolution of Online Political Subcultures

- Joshua traces the rise of niche internet subcultures, such as eco-anarchists and post-left movements, which began as small meme-driven communities but have since influenced broader political narratives.

- He highlights the concept of political trendcasting, where early online memes and ideologies often foreshadow larger societal shifts.

- The shift from libertarianism to populism among young conservatives is noted as a significant trend, reflecting dissatisfaction with neoliberalism.

📈 Radicalization and the Meme Pipeline

- Joshua explains how memes act as transmittable narratives, shaping political beliefs through humor and irony.

- He critiques the radicalization funnel metaphor, emphasizing that belief systems and political coalitions are constantly in motion.

- Examples include young people moving from casual meme posting to engaging with extreme ideologies, such as eco-terrorism or far-right populism.

🌍 The Role of Aesthetics in Politics

- Aesthetics, such as the rise of tradwife nationalism or cottagecore communism, often precede and shape political ideologies.

- Joshua discusses how aesthetics can make political movements more appealing or alienating, citing Gavin Newsom's edgy neoliberalism as an example.

- He argues that aesthetics alone are insufficient for meaningful political change, emphasizing the need for substantive policies.

👨‍💻 Challenges Facing Young Men in Politics

- Joshua highlights the alienation of young men from left-wing movements, often due to dismissive rhetoric and a lack of focus on their material concerns.

- He critiques the left's inability to engage with this demographic, noting that many young men are drawn to right-wing populism as a result.

- The decline of unionized, male-dominated industries is identified as a structural barrier to organizing young men politically.

🌱 Environmentalism and Political Extremes

- Joshua explores the rise of eco-extremism, where some activists reject industrial society entirely, advocating for antinatalist and neo-Malthusian policies.

- He notes the growing intersection of environmentalism and right-wing politics, particularly around issues like climate refugees.

- The effectiveness of performative climate activism, such as vandalizing public spaces or artworks, is questioned, with Joshua advocating for more constructive approaches.