#2392 - John Kiriakou

Overview

This episode features John Kiriakou, a former CIA counter-terrorism officer turned whistleblower, who exposed the agency's torture program and faced severe repercussions, including imprisonment. The conversation delves into his experiences within the CIA, the ethics of intelligence operations, the consequences of whistleblowing, and broader issues of government accountability and corruption.

Notable Quotes

- I was the only one who said no. – John Kiriakou, on refusing CIA training in enhanced interrogation techniques.

- If you want a friend in Washington, get a dog. – Harry Truman, quoted by John Kiriakou to highlight the cutthroat nature of politics.

- We don't want a corrupt CIA. We don't want a politicized CIA. – John Kiriakou, on the importance of ethical intelligence operations.

🕵️‍♂️ The CIA’s Torture Program

- Kiriakou recounts his role in capturing Abu Zubaydah, a high-ranking Al Qaeda operative, and the subsequent introduction of enhanced interrogation techniques by the CIA.

- He describes the techniques, including waterboarding and the cold cell, which led to prisoner deaths. He refused to participate, calling it a torture program despite official claims of legality.

- The FBI’s humane interrogation methods proved more effective, yielding actionable intelligence without resorting to torture.

- Kiriakou highlights the moral and legal failures of the program, noting its ineffectiveness and the agency's reliance on revenge-driven tactics.

⚖️ Whistleblowing and Its Consequences

- Kiriakou became the first U.S. official to confirm the CIA’s torture program publicly, leading to severe retaliation.

- He was charged under the Espionage Act, faced financial ruin, and served nearly two years in prison.

- Despite the personal cost, his revelations were later validated by the Senate Torture Report, proving his claims were accurate.

- He discusses the systemic targeting of whistleblowers, particularly under the Obama administration, which prosecuted more whistleblowers than all previous administrations combined.

🇮🇱 U.S.-Israel Relations and Influence

- Kiriakou critiques the disproportionate influence of Israel on U.S. politics, citing examples like APAC’s lobbying power and the lack of accountability for its actions.

- He shares anecdotes about Israeli intelligence attempting to recruit him and their history of planting listening devices during meetings with the CIA.

- He questions why APAC is exempt from registering as a foreign agent, despite its lobbying activities.

🌐 Global Threats and Geopolitics

- Kiriakou identifies China as a greater long-term threat than Russia, citing its strategic patience and focus on infrastructure and global influence.

- He discusses the dangers of Chinese and Russian disinformation campaigns, particularly their use of bots to sow division in American society.

- On the Israel-Palestine conflict, he warns of Benjamin Netanyahu’s vested interest in prolonging the war to avoid corruption trials and maintain power.

🤖 AI, Propaganda, and Media Manipulation

- Kiriakou highlights the dangers of AI-driven propaganda, including ChatGPT being trained to favor specific narratives, such as pro-Israel messaging.

- He shares personal experiences of encountering false information about himself in AI systems and the broader implications of automated disinformation campaigns.

- The conversation touches on the erosion of trust in media and the legalization of government propaganda under the Obama administration.