Flock CEO Garrett Langley on Controversy, "Surveillance State" Claims, and Privacy vs Safety

Overview

This episode features Garrett Langley, CEO of Flock Safety, discussing the company's controversial role in balancing public safety and privacy. The conversation delves into Flock's technology, its impact on crime reduction, privacy concerns, and the challenges of operating in a highly scrutinized space. Topics include data retention policies, the use of drones, AI's role in law enforcement, and the company's response to public backlash.

Notable Quotes

- The individuals who only look at privacy or only look at safety are both on the wrong side of the equation. We've got to find a common ground. – Garrett Langley, on the balance between safety and privacy.

- Defaults matter. If you hold data for 30 days, it’s more effective, but cities should decide. Someone democratically elected should have the final say. – Garrett Langley, on empowering communities to set data retention policies.

- You don’t get to pick when you’re the victim of violence. Everyone wants justice when something bad happens, and everyone wants to know they’re going to be safe. – Garrett Langley, on the universal need for safety.

🚔 The Role of Flock Safety in Crime Reduction

- Flock Safety provides license plate reading cameras and drones to over 6,000 cities, helping solve over 1 million crimes and locate 10,000 missing persons in the past year.

- The technology captures vehicle details like license plates, roof racks, bumper stickers, and dents, aiding law enforcement in investigations.

- Langley shared a case where Flock cameras helped recover a stolen car with a two-year-old inside within an hour.

🔒 Privacy vs. Safety Debate

- Flock's data retention policy has shifted from 30 days to a default of 7 days, which Langley claims solves 90% of crimes. However, he acknowledges that the remaining 10% often involve high-profile cases like homicides or assaults, which may require longer retention.

- Communities have the power to set their own data retention policies, with some states mandating limits ranging from 3 minutes (New Hampshire) to 5 years (New Jersey).

- Langley emphasized the importance of transparency and community control, stating, If a city doesn’t want Flock, they can turn it off.

🕵️‍♂️ Addressing System Abuse and Dirty Cops

- Flock has implemented an audit assistance tool to detect misuse of its systems, such as officers repeatedly searching for the same license plate without justification.

- This tool has already led to the firing of nine officers in Georgia for abusing the system. Langley emphasized the need for accountability, stating, We have to find these bad cops and get rid of them.

- The company is exploring additional safeguards, such as requiring supervisor approval for certain searches, to further prevent misuse.

🤖 The Promise and Perils of AI in Public Safety

- Langley expressed caution about deploying AI in high-stakes scenarios like 911 systems, citing the risks of errors and the need for human oversight.

- While AI could help identify suspicious patterns, Flock has committed to avoiding defining suspicion or engaging in predictive policing, which Langley described as really dangerous.

- The company is taking a slow, deliberate approach to AI, focusing on enhancing objectivity and reducing errors in law enforcement.

🚁 The Rise of Drones in Law Enforcement

- Flock's drones are housed in climate-controlled docks and can be deployed to 911 calls, often arriving faster than officers.

- Langley shared a case where a drone identified a reported gun as a harmless lighter, de-escalating a potentially dangerous situation.

- Transparency is a key focus, with flight patterns and audit logs available to city officials, though Langley acknowledged the need for stronger safeguards and public trust.

🛡️ Safety as a Privilege and Flock's PR Challenges

- Langley highlighted the disparity in safety perceptions, noting that wealthier communities often have private security measures, while less affluent areas rely on public safety tools like Flock.

- The company has faced significant backlash, including vandalism of cameras and public criticism. Langley admitted to past communication missteps and emphasized the need for better education and transparency.

- Despite losing 1% of its customers due to privacy concerns, Flock has seen 20 cities reinstate its services after experiencing increased crime rates.