From managing people to managing AI: The leadership skills everyone needs now | Julie Zhuo (Facebook VP, Sundial CEO, The Making of a Manager author)

Overview

This episode features Julie Zhuo, former VP of Design at Facebook and co-founder of Sundial, discussing the evolving role of managers in the age of AI. She explores how AI is reshaping organizational structures, the skills needed to thrive in this new landscape, and the timeless principles of effective management. Julie also shares insights on leveraging AI for learning, decision-making, and personal growth.

Notable Quotes

- We need to dissolve the boundaries of these traditional roles and call ourselves builders. - Julie Zhuo, on the future of work.

- Diagnose with data and treat with design. - Julie Zhuo, on balancing intuition and analytics.

- Be sturdy while being flexible—like the willow tree. - Julie Zhuo, on managing change in uncertain times.

🌐 The Flattening of Organizations

- AI is enabling individuals to perform multiple roles, reducing the need for traditional hierarchies.

- Julie notes that AI tools empower individuals to reach the 60th-70th percentile in skills they previously lacked, reducing reliance on large teams.

- Companies like Sundial are experimenting with smaller, cross-functional teams where roles like product managers are eliminated, encouraging engineers and designers to take ownership of broader responsibilities.

🤖 Managing AI as a Core Skill

- Julie emphasizes that managing AI agents mirrors traditional management: setting clear goals, understanding strengths, and creating effective processes.

- Key skills for working with AI include clarity in defining outcomes, understanding the strengths of different models, and adapting processes to integrate AI tools effectively.

- AI tools like ChatGPT are being used to accelerate learning, enabling teams to acquire new skills 10x faster by personalizing educational content.

📊 Data-Driven Decision Making

- Julie introduces the framework: Diagnose with data, treat with design. Data identifies problems, while creativity and intuition solve them.

- Many hypergrowth AI companies lack robust data infrastructure, relying instead on instincts and rapid iteration. However, Julie warns that as growth slows, data observability becomes critical for diagnosing issues.

- She highlights the need for new methodologies to analyze conversational data in AI-driven products, such as understanding user intent in chat-based interactions.

💬 Feedback and Growth

- Feedback should be a daily practice, not limited to performance reviews. It accelerates individual and team improvement.

- Julie advises framing feedback as a collaborative effort to grow together, starting with mutual buy-in for open communication.

- For difficult feedback, she recommends expressing vulnerability and framing the conversation as an opportunity to help the recipient succeed.

🌱 Timeless Management Lessons

- Self-awareness is foundational for effective management. Understanding personal strengths and weaknesses helps managers adapt to different contexts.

- Managers must align their conviction with the goals they are tasked to achieve. If misaligned, they should engage in dialogue to clarify assumptions and find common ground.

- The concept of win-win is central to Julie’s philosophy—managers should strive for solutions that benefit both the individual and the organization.